Tue 27 Feb 2007
Berkeley Toyota Caught Lying - Refuses To Sell Couple A Car
Posted by Jonah Stein under Berkeley Toyota , Berkeley Toyota SucksBuying a new car is rarely a pleasant experience.
- Car salesmen lie to you on the phone to get you to walk in the door.
- Car dealers advertise a special in the newspaper and then tell you the vehicle is already sold.
- They tell you that the discount they advertised isn’t available in the model you want because “that car is hard to get.”
- They claim to have your car in stock and then try to sell you whatever they’ve got.
Most of us would rather get a root canal than walk into a showroom.
So, what does a dealer do when you catch the salesman red-handed in a bald-faced lie?
Apologize? Show Contrition? Pretend to care?
Berkeley Toyota simply refused to sell my wife a car.
What does this have to do with measurement? Call it the Stein Uncertainty Principle: what you choose to measure changes behavior with unintended consequences.
Toyota has a great reputation for customer satisfaction. They methodically follow up with every customer and have built much of their compensation for salesmen from the customer survey results. Salesmen know that one unhappy customer could affect their rating and cost them thousands of dollars. Does this system make salesmen treat customers better?
NO. Instead, this dealer won’t sell you a car if they think you might be unhappy with them. Catch them lying to you and they won’t sell you the car. Why risk letting anyone with a bad experience actually tell Toyota Corporate about it?
This saga begins when my wife decided that her 1992 Camry was ready for a replacement. The car had served her well for 15 years and over 100,000 miles, but time had taken its toll on the interior and exterior.
We began by visiting Broadway Toyota in Oakland, where I had leased a Prius the month before. We chose the model and color she wanted, but they did not have the car in stock. The Oakland dealer did search and told us that the touring package was only available in a Package 5, which contained the navigation system and was about $3k more. They offered to sell us a package 5 Prius for $1750 off of the sticker price, but said that they couldn’t find any in gray. We asked them to locate the car we wanted and give us a call.
After not hearing from them for three day, my wife decided to call Berkeley Toyota, where she bought the Camry in 1993. She spoke to a salesman named Javier and asked him if they had a gray Prius in stock. He said they had two available and made an appointment for us to come in.
My wife and I arrive 15 minutes later to discover that Javier hasn’t returned from picking up the car. When he finally arrives after 20 minutes, I explain that we were in a hurry; I took off work to come make sure my wife gets the deal we were promised and she needed to leave for class in two hours.
Javier stepped away for a few minutes to talk with another salesman and returned to tell us that it turns out that they sold one of the gray ones on Saturday and that the other one they have isn’t available because it just arrived and hasn’t been checked into inventory. He said that the car can’t be ready for delivery for another three days. When I questioned why it would take so long, he responded that the service department was very busy (this PDI process, according to the customer service manager at Berkeley Toyota, takes about 1.5 hours and can usually be done the same day).
Javier sat us down and asked my wife to fill out a credit application along with an offer sheet. He took the sheet and went into his manager’s office. Javier returned about five minutes later and told us Mr. Rios said his manager noticed that we “were upset or in a bad mood,” and wanted to be sure we would be happy. He then admitted that the gray car been damaged and needed repairs before they could sell it to us. After hearing we were not interested in buying a brand new car that had already been in the body shop, he tried to sell us on a different car.
Of course, we were not happy about coming in to the store to discover the car we wanted wasn’t available. We told Javier exactly what we wanted on the phone, we had already researched the car and we came in to close the deal. We didn’t come, not re-negotiate the deal or be offered a different color. They didn’t have the car they promised us available, so we left.
My wife phoned Mr. Rios a few hours later to ask what the manager might have meant by that comment about us being in a bad mood. She explained that at this point she was interested in ANY Prius with a Package #2 and a dark interior, and she was willing to come back in to discuss another color. Javier said that he would look into what was available and call her back.
Imagine her shock when Javier phoned back a few minutes later (presumably after discussing it with his manager) to say that he “feels uncomfortable selling us a car” since we were so angry and that her husband made him “feel like dirt” on the phone.
We were outraged. They lied to us about having two cars available. They lied about needing three days to prepare the car for delivery so they could fix the body damage. After all that, when my wife was ready to settle for another color to be finished with the agony of dealing with car salesmen, they said we weren’t happy enough to buy a car from them!
Toyota has gotten a lot of press about their customer satisfaction program, including a recent New York Times article, Toyota’s rise to world domination driven by customer satisfaction, we decided to write Toyota Headquarters.
We did hear back from Toyota, who said they would file a report with Toyota of Berkeley and that we would get a call back from them within 3 days. They did not offer any hope for resolution or provide anything we could feel positive about.
The next morning, we got a follow up call from Toyota of Berkeley. The customer satisfaction manager explained that he had heard about the situation and that the dealer was simply exercising their right to choose who to do business with. He agreed that Javier was trying to avoid us knowing about the car needing paint when he said it would take 3 days to PDI. He further stated that Toyota would require them to tell us about the body damage if the repair exceeded $500. He didn’t state that the damage was beyond the $500 threshold, but we speculate that the dealer told us about the body damage after they new thye would have to disclose it when they sold us the car.
He also said that this situation occurred because the salesman was afraid that if he sold us a car, we would respond unfavorably in our customer satisfaction survey. He said that one bad experience reported by a customer could lower the customer satisfaction index, costing the salesman thousands of dollar over the course of a year. Javier dug himself a hole and then claimed that we were in a bad mood and using profane language because he was scared we might trash him in a customer survey.
How is that for Irony? Because of Toyota’s customer satisfaction measurement system, Berkeley Toyota lied to us, got caught lying and then their management refused to sell us a car.
Unfortunately, that won’t ever show up in a customer survey.
March 5th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Hey, why don’t you publish this on Consumerist.com?
March 7th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Tamar
Thanks for the Tip! I sent an email to consumerist and wound up with about 400 visitors.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:44 am
Please get a life, if you could get the deal you wanted at any Toyota dealer why don’t you! I would agree with the Toyota dealer in Berkeley and their process in dealing with you. People (Consumers) have forgotten (Class) when dealing with Dealers. If you want a particular auto dealer to give a more than a competitive price at least be pleasant. I don’t believe the dealer is the only one to blame. Look with in your own collar and would you sell a good to an upleasant prospect?
June 6th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Bypass the dealer, buy from the net.
The dealer will always want to suck your time. If you know what you want, buying from the net puts you in a position of power: you answer the phone or call back when YOU want.
Then go to the dealer, sign the papers, check the car and go, 20 minutes or less there! I know, I did it and that was a great feeling.
June 19th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Don’t let 1 person ruin your hard work to decide on this car. Buy it from another dealer, then fill in the survey based upon the whole experience from the first dealer. I know that doesn’t sound fair to the second dealer but it paints the whole picture and that is being honest.
George, don’t be so quick to judge, you nor I was there so we don’t know the real truth.
July 14th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Toyota- they are delicious- My sister went into Toyota in Hartford, CT and was given a run around- not happy- they emailed her after she walked out and told her that her credit was not good enough for a car……It is perfect
Hello…American
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:51 am
I was buying an SUV a couple months back, and amongst others, I drove A Saturn VUE and a Toyota Rav4. I Hate Toyotas and always buy american cars, but I figured I’d give Toyota a chance. I regret it. They tried to push me into buying the car I didn’t want, and I argued for an hour, and whenever I proved him wrong he just replied, “Well Toyotas are better” Talk about cocky! Whereas at Saturn, Jeff welcomed me with a smile, and even paid for my coffe from their coffe machine. At Toyota, they pushed me out the door at closing time. At Saturn, Jeff stayed an hour after closing time to convince me why I should buy a Saturn. Nowadays, Toyota and Honda can treat their customers like shit and still sell tons of cars b/c their customers are so closed minded and stubborn. Anyway, the Toyota rode rough and was loud, whereas the Saturn rode great, and has the most comfortable seats i’ve ever felt, and i’ve owned Volvos!(Volvos are known for their amazing seats) And reliability? Not only are Saturns known for being as dependable as the tides, but it’s got a Honda engine that’s built in the USA, so take that Toyota!
August 10th, 2007 at 3:30 am
I sell cars at a dealership in New England. First of all, there is nothing more unpleasant than dealing with a Prius customer. Number one, they want to know about every nook and cranny on the vehicle. I have no problem explaining these features and benefits, but it is hard to motivate myself to perform a great presentation when the customer is nickel and diming me on the price of the car. Why is it that we always have to start the negotiations at the “manufacturers suggested retail price” and work our way down, rather than start above the msrp?
Customers hardly realize the type of irritation accompanied by shear arrogance that sales professionals have to experience on a daily basis. Does anyone like to work for free?
All I have left to say is: Don’t be surprised when the sales guy gives you an attitude when your asking him to put you on 3 or 4 different test drives when you are telling him your not ready to buy. Why somebody would even test drive with no intentions of buying bewilders me and challenges my thought process.
To sum everything up in one sentence: To get the quality of Toyota, you have to pay more.
September 18th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I recently bought a Scion XB at Toyota Berkeley. My experience with the salespeople was wonderful. Also, the office manager was exceptionally professional and courteous. It sounds like you were frustrated coming in to the dealership. Remember we all make mistakes. I read your story and see no fault on either party. Just a bad day on your part!
September 18th, 2007 at 8:08 pm
Desiree
I wish I could be so understanding, but the facts really speak for themselves: The salesman lied repeatedly and then got caught, so he took the cowardly way out an refused to sell the car.
I can’t see how that is a “bad day on your part”, since my wife was ready to buy the car on the spot. We went to another dealer and had one with a few days, so clearly Berkeley Toyota is to blame.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I recently bought a 07 Camry from Toyota of Berkeley, needed there fiscal address and saw your website on the google page and it caught my eye. I read your story and to my suprise Javier Rios was also my salesmen.
The car I originally wanted was damaged in the back bumper by the transportation truck. Javier was great, he was honest he told me the truth. The choice then became mine I could have the car fixed or I could take a different car in stock. I decided like you I didn’t want a damaged car. I decided to take a silver Camry in stock and not take the black one that was damaged. The choice was mine and the choice was yours. Don’t forget the car that you wanted was there just with damage. Your wife then called back to say she would take any Package 2 Prius in another color? Why would she do this if you guys felt mistreated? Okay they treated me bad so lets go back for more? Dosen’t make sense. I do know that CSI is very important to all Automotive Dealers not just Toyota. Dealers are being more selective if they think they will get bad CSI. I am opposite of you I am referring Toyota Of Berkeley as I dealer that I would buy from again.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
“Why is it that we always have to start the negotiations at the “manufacturers suggested retail price” and work our way down, rather than start above the msrp?”
You can start any place you want. In fact, most dealers jack up the MSRP by adding $200 floor mats, $1000 paint protection packages, and overpriced warranties. Oh, and don’t forget the Additional Dealer Markup on those hot cars.
Kind of funny that people don’t complain about stereo salesmen, appliance salesmen or clothing salesmen screwing them. It’s always car salesmen.
Please. You’re breaking my heart.
September 25th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Toyata Marin Sucks Too!! I had a nearly identical situation with Toyota Marin. Over the course of a week, I was lied to several times, given extremely mixed stories, told to buy a more expensive model, etc. They even cashed my check for 13K(!) without ever producing a car!!!! It was ugly. I eventually got my money back and am starting over. I did head up to Novato Toyota last weekend and they were way more on top of things- as well as completely professional (no pressure, no cheesy lies, etc). If I still go with a Prius, I’m going with them.
October 4th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Jonah, you are whiny bitch. your wife probably had a lot to do with your bitch training. OOOhhh I couldnt get the toyota i wanted… waaahhhhh. Shut up you idiot. you are the reason the rest of the world hates americans. Good for Javier, he just avoided the bad survey you and your cunt wife were gonna send in. I hope you crash your prius in a river with your kids on board… too harsh… ok i just hope you die and your kids grow up in foster care. suck it bitch.
Javier
October 9th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
First of all they didnt lie to you twice. The first car was sold, thats not a lie, they probably have 800-1000 cars in inventory and nobody can keep mental tabs on that kind of inventory. Secondly, you are a typical demanding consumer who is a pain in the ass for dealerships to deal with and you wont let them make any mone. Most car buyers are like that so why do you think salespeople have to be such dicks? So they can sell a car and make theie measly 100 bucks off people like you. You went in there expecting to get the run around and you facilitated it by being a prick. Good job.
October 29th, 2007 at 3:14 pm
I have four friends who were declined the services of eHarmony.com. They’re all sad sacks, and smart, funny, caring, true friends. eHarmony loves its customer satisfaction rating and I can’t help thinking that denying service to the glum is a great way to jigger the odds. Thanks for pointing out the motivation of improving the old customer satisfaction rating. I’ll tell them, they’ll feel better.
That said, Jonah, about a big purchase I can take so much tsuris and and only so much. Berkeley of Toyota’s no different. You don’t like their service, why make them miserable too? They’re not there for your emotional health! Time for Plan B.
December 28th, 2007 at 8:18 pm
Hi loser, is your name Javier Rios?
January 6th, 2008 at 1:29 am
Jonah I totally agree with you, Toyota dealers SUCKS!!!!!!!! I’ve been trying to buy an SUV and getting the run arounds myself and now I plan on dealing with a private party.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Hey, thank you just about to call that Toyota of Berkeley dealer..good bye to the dealer then! I won’t go there- so manny cars out in the market - i don’t want to be treated the same way you guys been mistreated. I could be treated worse because of my not so good credit! this country leave on plastic money! thanks for sharing the info.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
You get lied to.. and still buy a Toyota. Wow.
Just buy a Chevrolet or Ford, help your country out. Unlike the other heriticks.
March 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
It does not surprise me that this dealership uses these types of tactic, after all it is run by a man (Tim Southwick) who uses Meth and frequents prostitutes.
March 30th, 2008 at 1:16 am
I wonder how pissed Berkely toyota is right now about this post being #2 on Google..
Haha!
I was a car salesman for Toyota of Richardson at one point in my life… and part of our phone script was to get a potential customer in the door no matter what.
Grey Prius Package #5? Ya.. we got that bad boy right here. I’m looking at it. You’ll be hear at 4pm? Great, can’t wait to meet ya.
Hi nice to meet ya. About that Prius… yeeeeah.. we just sold it. But I have this FlexFuel Tahoe that gets pretty good gas mileage. How bout a test drive?
March 31st, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Well… more than a year later we run into a similar bad experience.
We went to Toyota Marin because a friend told us their service was great. BIG MISTAKE! First of all we call in advance to setup an appointment and give them time to have the car ready, it didn’t happen. Also, the sales person was not friendly at all, it was like she was doing us a favor, when in fact is the other way around. Obviously, we didn’t like the experience there and we finally left, but almost one month later we are still receiving calls from that sales person at Toyota Marin (I am pretty sure her name is Anne) insisting in doing business with them, we got a car somewhere else and we have told them this, but it looks like they don’t understand English at Toyota Marin when we asked them to stop calling us. Just don’t go there, avoid the whole nightmare and take your business somewhere else. So great we didn’t end up doing business with Toyota Marin.
April 20th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
BUYERS BEWARE!!!!!! DON’T TRUST TOYOTA OF BERKELEY!!! I purchased a used car from Toyota of Berkeley that they claimed was “certified”. After the purchased I asked them for a copy of the inspection report for my records. They not only wouldn’t give me a copy, they wouldn’t even show it to me. I then took my “certified” car to my local mechanic just to have him give me some reassurance that the car indeed was good. He told me it needed new brakes, the drive belts were cracked, the water pump was leaking, the transmission fluid was black and it looked like it had been in an accident. Now I know why they didn’t want to show me the inspection.
April 21st, 2008 at 7:45 pm
I find this story interesting! I did all my homework on-line like you are supposed to, I found a Highlander at Toyota of Berkeley. The price was pretty good, so I called and spoke with Javier Rios. I satrted by asking if the vehicle in question was still available, and it was. I specifically asked him if the price $21.2K was negotiable, he told me absolutely. When I asked him to tell me what to expect including taxes and all associated charges I was told that he wasn’t allowed to tell me numbers over the phone. I explained that I live about 100 mi from the dealership and would prefer to be given the opportunity to review the information to prevent wasting his time or mine. Javier assured me that they were ready to see the car go and were eager to negotiate. I asked Javier how late he would be in that day and he said 7pm. By the time I got off work I knew that I wouldn’t be able to get there before he left for the day, so we made arrangements to meet Saturday, or possibly as early as Friday. My family went to Toyota of Berkeley on Friday evening and test drove the Highlander, this is when Javier notified me that the price was magically non-negotiable. I asked what changed he said “We were originally selling the vehicle for $24.9K, we just put it on sale this week for $21.2K. When I first talked to you it was my day off and I had no way of knowing about the new sale price.” (Guess he forgot about telling me that he would be there until 7pm) If someone can’t be honest about the price than how am I supposed to trust him to be honest about how mechanically sound the vehicle truly is. Everyone understands the dealership needs to make money, yet they shouldn’t be shady as an ends to that means. If you are offering a fair deal it should stand on it’s own. Allow people to make an informed decision without all the smoke and mirrors.
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Toyota of Lewisville Texas refused to sell us a car after mutilple lies and an agreed to price. We were in the finance area and when believing they would not get a good survey walked out of the room. GM said he would call Monday 4/21 but never did. The way were talked too and bullied by one guy on the trade was amazing. The lack of integrity was overwhelming from top to bottom. The internet salesman made a bad deal for them and then they stuck it to us. Left with my son in tears. After talking with the GM we agreed to not fill out or give excellent on the rating but he refused the deal. With Toyota’s policy of “respect for people” we were blown away about the lack of professionalism and integrity. We ended up buying from Toyota of Plano (Texas) and it was a great experience. Beware of Toyota of Lewisville. They are not people of integrity.